Curse

Temken · May 31, 2005, 07:11 PM // 19:11

I don't suck at using my ranger, and in fact try to modify my skills for whatever's in front of me, but how exactly do I get that across to the other players without sounding like every other Warrior/Elementalist/Monk also vying for group spots? Flexibility just DOES NOT WORK in these kinds of games. I learned that hard lesson after playing a ranger for 5 years in EQ. We need specialization! Otherwise, we're just that poor geek in the corner who is always last to be picked in gym class. I do not want to see changes 6,7 years down the road. I'll be going gray by then with all the MOG's I've played in my life. I would like to see changes now! Otherwise, this game will just end up on my wall of shame, right beside my EQ CDs and my 90 billion AOL disks.

Tyil Thunder Arrow · May 31, 2005, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by sulos

rangers don't suck, you just don't know how to use one.

Foe Sheezy preach on.
Rangers can own anything if played right except maybe warriors to much armor.

Davin Kabak · May 31, 2005, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Flexibility DOES work, for someone who uses it well.

What I think you mean to say is, Flexibility doesn't work -for you-.

Classic example:

A friend of mine played a Ranger/Warrior, as I do. He used a bow, as most Rangers do. However, when an unsuspecting Warrior came up to get in his face, he switched to a very big, very deadly Hammer. Yes. A Ranger...with a Hammer.

What did he do with the Hammer? Knock the Warrior on his buttox, and procede to beat the tar of out the poor Warrior that thought he was in for an easy kill. Why did he win? Did he do more damage? No. Did he do the right damage at the right time, to an opponent that was not ready for it? Yes.

That is what Rangers do. They find the weak spots, and direct the right measure of damage to the right area. Weakened enemies that have warriors chasing them, but hovering near 1/3 health, for example. A Ranger is not meant to go out and kill things outright, by himself, all the time. He(she) -can- do this, but they are best combining their ranged, specialized attacks onto key opponents, to turn the tide of a battle.

Subtle changes, like the death of a mesmer, or a monk, can completely turn the tide of battle. Rangers, being a ranged attacker with a very diverse set of abilities, makes them flexible and able to adapt much more quickly to the unexpected threat or opportunity. This makes them able to adapt to that unexpected situation, and pick out these key points, to put pressure on an enemy's shatter point...or protect the shatter point of your own team.

P.S.: If you don't know what a shatter point is, you most likely do not have a lot of experience with, or focus much on, tactics and strategy. If this is the case, a Ranger will probably not suit you anyway.

P.S.S.: This game is NOT EQ. In fact, I generally think that comparing this to any of those games is simply garbage thinking. Please refrain from any sort of references to such in here. This game dynamic has been built from the ground up to be completely different. Your experience there, frankly, means very little in Guild Wars. Sorry.

Krileon Reborn · May 31, 2005, 09:16 PM // 21:16

I'd have to agree that rangers arn't as strong with bow as they should be. Me being probably one of the very few with EVERY ranger skill unlocked. I have tested it all. Trust me they arn't very good at bow damage, BUT the pet is a wonderful friend to have when beastmastery is very high. I have 16 beastmastery and he hits for 50 damage a swing not to mention with call of haste on him. My bow hits for 20ish damage as well as using Melandru's Arrow for bleeding and when enchantments are cast add 20 more. Trying to go pure bow won't work. You need someone to tank while you shoot them arrows. Get beastmastery up and atleast using Call of Protection of Symbiotic Bond so he doesn't die so easy. Next you need a nice bow. I suggest doing the collector one for mineral springs. It's Max damage ascalon bow (just a fancy name for shortbow lol) and has 15% dmg bonus when health is above 50%. Now i've also tested "Ninja" builds. Ranger/Warrior is VERY powerful, but you lack in defensive abilities. With a good sword and tiger's fury with a few atk skills a long side with your pet then mean damage is done, but yet is nto a bow build. If I ever find a bow build that seams strong then i'll let yas know. Untill then GL

Shoujo · May 31, 2005, 09:50 PM // 21:50

A lot of people seem to claim that flexibility is one of the ranger's virtues. I'm not entirely convinced, though I would love to be convinced otherwise. Ranger outfits are nice, but fashion alone isn't reason enough for me to work on a new character. I have been seriously tempted though

The main reason why I'm not convinced is because with the primary/secondary profession system, any non-ranger primary seems capable of specializing while still having the option to sort of be a jack-of-all-trades type character if they wished. Also, the ranger's flexibility only seems to be of benefit when the ranger is allowed to modify their skills and attributes. Once they've decided to focus on performing a certain role(s) and their skills are unmodifiable, they don't seem a whole lot more flexible than other characters. Any thoughts?

Axelia · May 31, 2005, 11:51 PM // 23:51

A lot of players just don't realise how powerful a Ranger is. Well in PvE anyway.

I was R/N up to around level 16 at which point I started pumping Beastmastery and Wilderness Survival just because no one else seems to think the skill lines are useful. My pet can really lay the damage down with Call of Haste, Feral Lunge and Scavenger Strike while I use Apply posion or Kindle Arrows (Sure hoping to capture the posion arrow and Incendiary Arrows sometime though). Since the bleeding and posion stack it takes a mob down real fast. It also seems that with more points in Beastmastery my pet tanks a mob better since he just sticks to the first one pulled unless I call him off with use of a skill. He kills Minotaur in Elona Reach by himself and he is only level 18

Mercury Rivenswift · Jun 01, 2005, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davin Kabak

Flexibility DOES work, for someone who uses it well.

What I think you mean to say is, Flexibility doesn't work -for you-.

Classic example:

A friend of mine played a Ranger/Warrior, as I do. He used a bow, as most Rangers do. However, when an unsuspecting Warrior came up to get in his face, he switched to a very big, very deadly Hammer. Yes. A Ranger...with a Hammer.

What did he do with the Hammer? Knock the Warrior on his buttox, and procede to beat the tar of out the poor Warrior that thought he was in for an easy kill. Why did he win? Did he do more damage? No. Did he do the right damage at the right time, to an opponent that was not ready for it? Yes.

That is what Rangers do. They find the weak spots, and direct the right measure of damage to the right area. Weakened enemies that have warriors chasing them, but hovering near 1/3 health, for example. A Ranger is not meant to go out and kill things outright, by himself, all the time. He(she) -can- do this, but they are best combining their ranged, specialized attacks onto key opponents, to turn the tide of a battle.

Subtle changes, like the death of a mesmer, or a monk, can completely turn the tide of battle. Rangers, being a ranged attacker with a very diverse set of abilities, makes them flexible and able to adapt much more quickly to the unexpected threat or opportunity. This makes them able to adapt to that unexpected situation, and pick out these key points, to put pressure on an enemy's shatter point...or protect the shatter point of your own team.

P.S.: If you don't know what a shatter point is, you most likely do not have a lot of experience with, or focus much on, tactics and strategy. If this is the case, a Ranger will probably not suit you anyway.

P.S.S.: This game is NOT EQ. In fact, I generally think that comparing this to any of those games is simply garbage thinking. Please refrain from any sort of references to such in here. This game dynamic has been built from the ground up to be completely different. Your experience there, frankly, means very little in Guild Wars. Sorry.

Are you kidding me? Is this supposed to show that rangers have a place in competitive pvp?????? Give me a break. This is not a viable warrior-killing strat. Your friend just happened to be facing another noob. I love playing a ranger, but I have accepted the fact that only a pure noob team would accept me to go to HOH. In the 4v4 games, rangers can be effective. I'm just upset that in guild wars, a self-proclaimed competitive game, there is a class that is completely outmatched in pvp because it is a "jack of all trades". Ranger is a PvE class. I think they should have added a "Rogue" instead. This might have included things like backstab damage, dual wielding, and all the other stuff that attracts teenagers. At least the ranger would have a role then. The only thing a ranger can do better than anyone is set traps and scoop moa bird poop.

audioaxes · Jun 01, 2005, 03:23 AM // 03:23

i must say atleast for the the lvl 15 shiverspeak arena, rangers are just about the weakest class. I played there ALOT with 4 different builds and noticed an astonishly disappointing trend of Rangers sitting in the back ground shooting their little arrows with very low damage per second and then running from the battlefield when they start getting damage. Sure they can survive and are usually the last to die using these tactics but it doesnt even help the team win, especially when comparing the need for a Monk vs a Ranger in 4v4.

Kishin · Jun 01, 2005, 03:37 AM // 03:37

I gurantee you that you can chalk that up to the fact that 90% of those Rangers haven't learned that they cannot output strong DPS at that stage of the game, and should be disrupting and pummelling casters.

Also, no one is even weighing the need for a Ranger versus the need for a Monk. In fact, no one weighs anything against the need for a Monk, and no one probably ever will, unless somebody showed up at the level 15 arena with SoCed Spectral Agony.

(Muhahaha).

Or the Super Duper Healing spell you obtain from Undead Gwen (see the Riverside folder for more details), heheh.

Temken · Jun 01, 2005, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Please refrain? Ok, both games ARE MOGs by definition. Both games operate under the ASSUMPTION that all classes are different and therefore have something unique that can be vital to a group. I don't need to tell you what happens when assumptions are made. I will make whatever comparisons I choose to because that is where i have experience. Right now I am seeing a lot of similarities between where rangers fall at the endgame of EQ and where they fall at the endgame of Guild Wars. Are the games different? Yes. Do they have similarities in this respect? Absolutely! The only difference is that in this game, I can't disguise my character as another class to fool groups into inviting me. That's one desparate measure I hope never to use again.

Cymboric Treewalker · Jun 01, 2005, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by adugabutt

good point epinephrine. but does flexibility warrant value in the eyes of the group? afterall, it is a team game.

honestly in your opinion, would you pick a flexible char over a specialized one to fill that last gap in your party?

maybe it's just that i've never actually seen a great bow ranger. i do admit that their flexibility makes them decent in four on four encounters but not that desirable in HoH. maybe i've just never had the privelege of seeing one.

If I knew what my opponent was bringing - no I would take the needed specalist... but last time I checked I DON'T know what the enemy team is.

Desecration Station · Jun 01, 2005, 11:09 PM // 23:09

I don't know how this got from bow dmg to rangers not being good period. I think everyone needs to experiment a little more.

Fact of the matter is that it's hard for a ranger to get a group for HoH for the sheer fact that there a lot of rangers that don't know what they're doing.

I'm R/N trapper and anyone that has had me on their team knows what that build is capable of.

I wouldn't know about bow ranger dmg because frankly I haven't tried it since PvE (where i absolutely owned), but to those people making the generalization that rangers suck they just need to try something different.

Enigmatics · Jul 01, 2005, 02:51 PM // 14:51

For pve: Zealous Halfmoon of Fortitude, max dmg, used with barrage. For pvp, I don't use barrage, instead using arrow speed boosters and a max damage Storm Bow(longbow specs, best critical %), staying behind and sniping. Rangers aren't too specialized unless you want them to be; they're supposed to have a bit of everything. Even though that sounds gay, rangers can easily farm, or pvp, using all ranger skills.

EDIT: pets suck unless you're leveling your beast mastery attribute -they're great for getting killed and disabling your skills for 8 seconds!

kelith · Jul 02, 2005, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gh0sT

FYI there isnt really a good use in upping ur marksmanship (or every other weapon attribute), above 12.... why you might ask ? ... well for the simple fact that the difference in damage output between 12 and 16 is very small, almost the same as between 10 and 12...
(i suggest you read ensign's treat on game mechanics, or something like that, its explained there)...

You'd better invest those points you keep to another attribute like expertise (less energy = more spammage), or Wilderness Survival (i think adding points here give you more benefit then adding them to marksmanship)...

This post here brings up the possible benifit to critical hits with attributes higher than 12. I would say it still needs more testing to either refute or prove but it's something to consider.

Enigmatics · Jul 02, 2005, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Expertise is usually topped at 14 by rangers. Gives 56% less cost. (rounded to 60%?)

Enigmatics · Jul 02, 2005, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Incendiary is a debatable elite, you'd be better off with read the wind, and conjure flame+mark of rodgort. For the elite, most anything goes well with pure damage dealers. You've spelt devices wrong, and practicality isn't a word. Careful with the big phrases. Again, there is such thing as specializing in a particular area. While some consider your exact copy of Ensign's shock sniper build less versatile, it does what it's meant to do, and does a lot of damage. It's also why read the wind and favorable winds was put there; so you could snipe and barely miss targets.

Solais · Jul 02, 2005, 02:20 PM // 14:20

I probably should have read that build article before posting then. At least I can always easily correct the error by deleting the post if the resource is already available.

I'll go ahead and read it right now.

Enigmatics · Jul 02, 2005, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Sorry... i'm not spiteful on purpose, it just comes to me.

Sereng Amaranth · Jul 02, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigmatics

...and practicality isn't a word...

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=practicality

Enigmatics · Jul 04, 2005, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Owned. At least I got suppervluous and lude.